Richard Nixon resigned from office. But Clintons worked largely because of the people, and mostly Bob Rubin, but anyway, it worked well. I first met Bill Clinton in college. Certainly, when he captained it, it was a different party than it had been for the previous 50 years. You ultimately get into a room like this and you say, youd better start to train me, tell me how this happened. I remember the very stirring tableau as you may remember, the Clintons and the Gores came out onto this beautifully lit portico and there were, it seemed, thousands of people on the street in front of them. The only thing that Id like to leave this on in respect to any follow-up is this: If at any point you dont think you have a clear picture of Lloyd Bentsens role, since he is not in a position to speak for himself, feel free to call me or talk to me further about that. It used to be, I believe, that they were graded on grounds of competent scholarship and so forth. No because Clinton had determined, as he well should havesee, Presidents often dont do this, or Presidents-elect, but they shouldBentsen had to be satisfied that this was something he wanted. But its there on the record; everybody can read those reports. The President decided it, but Mack McLarty actually called me. So if you want to call it the politics of the economy, The labor unions were overwhelmingly opposed. He got Republican ex-Presidents to sign on, though, as I recall. But in any event, Im sure it wasnt as good as it should have been. For the first part of the Clinton years, Arthur Burns was famously mystical, quite like Greenspan. What did you mean when you said, I knew how not to do it? You raised this issue with respect to the designation of sub-Cabinet officers. We assembled Carter and Ford and George H. W. Bush, and various other luminaries, Jim Baker, [Henry] Kissinger and so forth, to project a bipartisan front on NAFTA and Clinton gave the speech of his life. So essentially you would not have been involved in any of the crafting, I guess, you basically were given an agreement and it was a question of just lining up the votes at this point. So, third, economic policy was number one. I think the Japanese have ultimately realized its in their own interests to make a lot of these changes. But I interpreted that to mean, Maybe you should, because I felt that if he thought I shouldnt, hed say so. It was an astounding speech. Did you keep up with him when your paths parted? Tweet. So I had that meeting with Clinton. But the student radical movement had not penetrated? Clinton loves meetings like that. Now, of course, as far as working the Hill was concerned, I would take my cues from the constant and joint planning of the White House and Treasury legislative liaison staffs. Fifty Republicans had announced their opposition, 49 Democrats had announced their support, and Bob Kerrey was strolling around, going to the movies, which is what he was doing. I mean, by that time, the group that was advising him on economic policy had become reasonably well set. You wouldnt choose to go before a grand jury instead of, say, going to Yankee Stadium to see the Yankees playAt that point I was already out of the administration and I had no real concerns. Born on April 2, 1946 in United States of America, Roger Altman started his career as Financial professional . I had no background for that. We just didnt know, and thats pretty amazing, the biggest piece of legislation, the voting has actually begun. Bentsen only talked to about five or six Senators. The Times, which is typically, of course, a Democratic-leaning paper, was Clintons severest clinic throughout his whole Presidency, and on Whitewater went crazy. This had been the thrust of the campaign, so expectations were very high that Clinton would come forward with a real economic program, a comprehensive program, and from the moment that all these folks were chosen the question was, what is that program going to be? But I talked to Secretary Bentsen and I think hed been already talked to about it, but anyway, he said, Fine. The assessment was correct because, I cant recall the size of the economy then, but today it is about $10.7 trillion. But of course Republican support was sought. But when youre in the administrationI mean, as you well know, there are many on the more liberal side of the Clinton alumni who think the administration basically adopted the Republican position on welfare reform and that was what enabled it to happen, and anybody could have done it and Clinton doesnt deserve a lot of credit for it. We had to be sure Mexico could live with it. It turned out that the thing had really been left by the wayside and there was very little of the necessary planning that had gone into it and it was about two months off. Well, how do you know? The hearings process really kind of kicks it off. There were no violations of ethical guidelines, there was certainly no legal violation, and that proved to be pretty meaningless in the context of the uproar. I mean, Republicans are opposing it because its tax and spend, the President is upset about it because its Wall Street economics. In this case it was well coordinated because Howard Paster was really excellent at his job. People who liked Cuomo liked him a lot; people who didnt like him didnt like him at all, and it was about half-and-half. I think it just evolved rather randomly that not many of those former Carter people got involved with Clinton. As I say, we assembled sometime between the 20th and 25th of November in Washington and then December 5th or 6th or 7th or whatever it was he made his choices. You dont recall the specific occasion when you first met him? So it became effectively a simultaneous multilateral and bilateral summit because it became the setting for Clintons direct discussions with the Japanese Prime Minister. I knew what the ATF was, but not much more than that. He earned an A.B. I can remember feeling very chastened because he talked about how many children we were helping and how many families we were helping and I chose to try to makejust in the spirit of celebration, a few jokes. In other words, all the work that goes in before its actually sent to the Hill. So that was the revelation, so to speak, that occurred that day. I was given an office over in the Treasury. So I served in that job for give or take a year, and I never had a single meeting on an investigation nor did any of my predecessors, just wasnt done, wasnt necessary, and so forth. I think each person makes his or her own decision. But from the outside, one of the notable departures of that administration, and I think it began very early, was the cordial deference paid toward the Federal Reserve Board. Then I came upstairs, Hillary was there. But I didnt know where the President was on NAFTA. You know, the only other thought I would express on this is, despite the drama of the moment and the stakes, everyone, as they say, puts on his pants one leg at a time. I do believe it was able to make a difference. Also, strong figures, not weak figures. He said, Its up to you. No, its time for Russell, I really need this, I really need it, the country really needs it. I remember that very vividly, and I said, I want to do the honorable thing. I cant remember allTom Brokaw was there, Davis Weinstock, Dick Beatty, Bob Rubin, George Katz, and/or Bernie Nussbaum were there. You know, she made comments like I could have stayed home and baked cookies but I decided to be a real person, which served to severely antagonize a lot of traditionalists. It was a voluntary choice. I sat there for two or three hours and he took the measure of me and at the end he said, Would you like to do this? There was concern that we had already spilled an enormous amount of blood on the economic plan. So I spent a lot of time on healthcare. I spent the last couple of hours of that period in the Oval Office with the President and that was quite unforgettable too because the President was hugely animated, to some extent discouraged, to some extent angry, and there were moments when I was the only one in there with him. Bentsen was chosen during the first week of December. As far as healthcare versus welfare reform? I was completelyclean bill of health from the independent counsel. But I dont recall encountering him at all. I think theres a wonderful tradition in American government where the outgoing administration typically does everything it can to assist the incoming one, and that was certainly true with the [Gerald] Ford administration. Carter had the famous $50 rebate, which became the object of much derision ultimately. Id met him a few times, but not ever to speak to. So he didnt have the luxury of saying, Lets do it a year from now, as you often do with other things. So I knew we had a problem. What was different about it was that it worked, because most of them had been somewhat dysfunctional. Actually, as often happens in Washington, accounts of that testimony appeared in a lot of newspapers and mostly on page D20. He had tried to offer every imaginable olive branch to the Iranian leadership. I take these observations, very astute observations, from people who live in this discipline. In 1987, Mr. Altman joined The Blackstone Group as vice chairman, head of advisory business, and investment committee member. Fortunately Secretary Bentsen said, No, not fine. But my first point is that that entire team was out there promoting the Presidents economic package, both crisscrossing the country for that purpose, speaking, visiting Congressional districts and so forth, testifying on it of course, visiting one-on-one with members of Congress. Thats just exactly what I said. And I also think that theres a certain sense of loyalty among the people that are currently serving in this administration, which is more in keeping with tradition, than the Clinton folks, or many of them I should say, brought to it. I didnt say anything to that. So two points: one, I support what the President did and I think he deserves a lot of credit for it. We didnt know if we were going to win. I know this sounds a bit odd, I hadnt thought about it a huge amount, partly because I had a full-tilt business career, and I was trying to separate the two. If youre Secretary of X, its pretty easy to become quite happily accustomed to the perquisites of that. I was politically active, though. I think we had a sandwich or something and I took off and went back to the airport. That has historically been, or at least in the modern era, a successful approach. Can you tell us about his decision-making process on this? The only other observation that just randomly runs through my mind is, I was always described in the press as an intimate of Clintons and that was just not the case. So it depends a lot on the people. I might have if I had not known Bob Rubin, but I knew him better than anybody else in the administration knew him and I had great confidence in him and knew that he and I would relate well. He knew how every member would vote. TR, extraordinarily colorful President. The President relied on Bentsen and Altman to take on some of his Administrations toughest tasks. During the day two or three people from the administration spoke to KerreyMack McLarty and Leo Panetta spoke to Kerrey. Not the first time he met with another head of state, but I think his first summit outside this country. And trade was one of Clintons priorities and of course NAFTA was followed by a series of other trade agreements, GATT [General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade] and so forth. I consider that another important legacy, since not that many Presidents of the 20th century have it. Japan accepted a series of goals that we wanted them to accept, but the teeth, in terms of enforcement, werent there. He was named the first week of December. Youre working on prospective personnel issues? It was, in any normal historical context, yes, right of center because it focused on deficit reduction, tighter fiscal policy, more conservative budgeting. I couldnt for the life of me see why that was a problem, but anyway, I went to the White House and told Bernie Nussbaum, the White House Counsel, just how the RTC actually operated in these matters. So if Clinton and Burns ever had any conversations, they certainly didnt communicate, Im sure. I recall speaking about 20 minutes before the vote to Marjorie MargoliesMezvinsky,with whom I had developed a friendship, and it became evident to me that she was very reluctant but willing to vote for the bill. In the first two years of the Clinton administration, they had about four Prime Ministers, pretty hard to get anywhere in that circumstance. Theyd been working on it for two or three weeks or whatever one does, but, as they usually do, the day before the profile runs, they want to come in and interview him so they can have a current aspect to it. Testimony appeared in a lot of these changes you raised this issue with respect to Hill... 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